Interview with Reggie Corner, November 19, 2013

Corner: My dad used to walk past there a lot of times. They used to do a lot of lunch, (Sauer's) was a lunch spot (0:15) -- just wooden tables, wooden chairs. Weird thing about Sauer's if you've ever been in there is that it was like a concrete floor that was like -- pebbles. Like it was rocks, you know. It wasn't a finished floor. (0:39)

Salkind: [Kind of like being outside or something?

Corner: Similar.

Salkind: So you started going to Sow-ers -- it's Sowers, or Sauer's? Nobody really knows.

Corner: Yeah they do know. I believe it is a German word and it is "Sow-ers," pronounced, but people say Soy-ers ...

Salkind: So the way it's actually pronounced and the way everybody remembers?

Corner: I know its Sauer's because I lived around there. (1:02) Actually one of 1:00my partner's brothers used to work there.

Salkind: So you were in eighth or ninth grade and you were going out to those parties, what do you remember from those parties? What were they like?

Corner: Well, I remember walking past actually -- walking past and looking at -- wondering, 'where did all these people come from? They aren't from our neighborhood.' (1:25) I knew some of the music, some of the songs, I'm seeing the lineup. Like wow, they got some nice blends. So, we actually started going to the parties, and just the music was just totally different from something that you heard on the radio or something that you maybe heard in the house, but I heard records that my brothers and them used to play, and my sister, but it wasn't in that whole format. Even if you listened to the radio, you would hear 2:00music, but it wasn't all this music that had this same beat or tempo.

Salkind: So that was the big difference? The beat?

Corner: That was the difference, constantly: the beat, the tempo. The beat's not all the same, but I'm just saying it's the same tempo. (2:25)

Salkind: That four to the floor.

Corner: Yeah.

Salkind: Do you remember any particular tracks from those early days of going out that were important, or was it kind of just the vibe and being at the party?

Corner: I couldn't tell you. There's so much music. But I could tell you this: we talk about house music, we didn't call it house. We come from a disco era into new wave/preppy. In Chicago we called the theme of the parties was preppy 3:00people, preppy music. Then the new wave mixed in with the preppy right along with the disco. So as we came up out of that then house was born. Thinking of some of the fun things back then, "Dr. Feelgood." That was one of my cuts.

Salkind: What kind of new wave stuff?

Corner: B-52s ... You got me thinking hard now.

Salkind: Just if something comes up. Shout it out. It's sort of fun to know but (3:40) you know, I know what you are saying that it wasn't just any one song, it was --

Corner: It varies."Trans-Europe Express," that came about. Everything was -- in 4:00Chicago people try to figure out what is house music, and I always say it's the same thing as what we call "Steppin" music. It's the tempo. You can take music from whatever genre, it don't matter if it's country and western, if it fits this tempo, then we put it in. We got Cat Stevens, "Riders on the Storm," (4:24). Those are stepping records, but those are not artists that created music and said, 'oh, I'm going to put it in this tempo,' but DJ's listened to it, heard it and said, 'hmm, I could play this over here!' It was all the same thing with house music. James Brown ... what was he doing in house music, until Ron Hardy took it and he was like 'Yeah!' He made this a house cut. (4:55) That's I guess what we love about music is that it don't have to come from one genre of 5:00music. It comes from all over.

Salkind: I think that's what people have trouble with, with house, right? When you tell people it's not any one genre, they're like, 'but I think I know what it sounds like.' Right? They don't know necessarily that what they think of -- house music is necessarily what someone from Chicago who grew up on house music thinks house music is.

Corner: It's what that DJ pulls that you might like and he might test it on you. And if the crowd is feeling it, now it's going to come into rotation. (5:36)

Salkind: Do you remember from those days at Sauer's, any time when you said, 'no, that track is not going to work.' Was there anything that was just so surprising, or were you just open to anything?

Corner: We went to a lot of different parties. First Impressions was in the neighborhood. That was close to Penthouse. They had parties at The Loft, The 6:00Warehouse. If I didn't like the record I'd just walk away. (6:11)

Salkind: You were just okay with it? You'd just like leave the dance floor?

Corner: I don't like something, I just kinda like turn it off, and it's still the same today. If I don't like something, then it gets left.

Salkind: So there were all these parties going on, were you out every weekend? How much of this were you doing? All the time?

Corner: I mean, in high school they had great parties. There were everywhere. We were grinding to see if was there a house party, because the high schools, they threw parties too. Certain high schools threw house parties, house music, disco; 7:00the preppy schools as we would call them. They threw parties, so it was Friday, Saturday, we out. I mean, every Friday, Saturday we out. (7:10)

Salkind: And the preppy parties are happening at the parochial schools like Mendel?

Corner: Yeah, Mendel, Quiggly South, Dunbar they threw parties, Leo -- you would say ... Cathedral. We went to Dunbar a lot. They used to throw -- Dunbar -- my high school, I went to Schurz, that wouldn't be a house party. They weren't throwing no house parties, but those kind of schools that kind of stayed with the house thing, or the preppy thing ... it wasn't house at that time. (8:04) 8:00That's the type of music they would play. They would bring the DJs that would play that music versus r&b, funk, and soul.

Salkind: But there was still r&b, funk, and soul in the mix? Or was house something totally different at that time?

Corner: No, you've got some. You've got this DJ that decided that this funk record can mix, can go into this groove, then he would play it. But you wouldn't hear a whole lot of that. She's got to document everything.

Salkind: Good!

Corner: That's my wife!

Salkind: Somebody's got to do it. Were you into promoting at that time?

Corner: Actually, I learned how to promote in the beginning of getting into promotions, two guys that taught me a lot about the game was Richard Grey, and 9:00Craig Thompson.

Salkind: The owners of The Candy Store and The Playground?

Corner: Yeah.

Salkind: They took you under their wing?

Corner: One of the things that they did is they looked at people going to parties to see who was kind of popular, and get that crew to work for them. So I stayed with them a long time. I learned a lot from them. (9:30)

Salkind: Very interesting. So they knew how to create an audience by catering to the people who had friends who were going to show up too?

Corner: Yeah.

Salkind: Very good, smart.

Corner: -- Sort of what they do today, promoters, you'll see a lot of social dance flyers --

Salkind: Very good. Were you working formally for them, or just hanging out there?

Corner: I was working formally for them; back then we had to do, it was flyers and posters.

Salkind: Pluggers right?

Corner: Yeah, pluggers. You'd hit the schools. At night, it's time for the street wars and poles. You'd hit the street poles. (10:24) There's a lot to it. You've got to get the flyers, you've got to get the posters. One thing I always loved about Craig, is they all lie. So in the meantime you waiting on this, you out in the middle of the night waiting on the flyer to be made, they telling you this and that. They always tell you a story. Nothing's never on time.

Salkind: So how far out of the neighborhood of where all the parties were happening, what now is called the South Loop, but the Near South Side, or whatever you want to call it? How far away did you promote? At the high schools 11:00down south?

Corner: No, we promoted everywhere. We promoted at what you would call the preppy schools. I guess you would consider them being the good schools. We would be in Hyde Park, so we would hit Kenwood, CVS, big Catholic schools, maybe King, Dunbar, North, Lincoln Park -- out west ... anywhere that you had the schools ... Whitney Young. Any of the schools that you would consider the nice schools, or the Catholic schools (11:54) because they were considered to be nice.

Salkind: So the preppy thing too is about class?

Corner: I would say it was about class. It didn't matter where you came from but 12:00it was like you had to have some class about you to actually be at these parties because they didn't want no trouble. It wasn't about gang banging. Even if you were a gang banger you had to have class. (12:16)

Salkind: Pull it together for the party.

Corner: Yeah, fit the style ... it was a culture. It was a style of clothes we had.

Salkind: What were the clothes like?

Corner: You had to ... actually I guess they stand the test of time: Polos, Izod, ripped jeans, Zodiac shoes, penny loafers, K Swiss -- you going to let me tell? (12:50) It was ... this is the weird thing, you know you had your high end 13:00clothes too, but it was standard to have your Polo and Izod, Tretorns, and K Swisses with holes in them and it was like, if you had holes and it was worn, and your jeans were worn, that was just ooh! Penny loafers -- with the gym shoes, I don't even know what that thing was about, even with the jeans, because you'd wear them to the point where they was worn way out, that was preppy. Nice clean shirt ... buttoned up, the Oxford. (13:38) Some of the things, like the jeans, they say skinny jeans, we would wear tight jeans with holes in them ... you remember when they used to wear the Polo shirt with the shirt up under it? Same thing. (13:58) You had the Polo shirt, a shirt, and a suit jacket. It was preppy to have a nice suit jacket on, maybe with a nice little shirt on, and 14:00your jeans just looking like they're crazy.

Salkind: So would people sweat through all this in the course of a night?

Corner: I mean, when we had a party we would dance from the time you were there until the time you leave. And you might leave and sweat is coming down -- your pants legs are wet. Just -- soaked. Especially at some of the parties at The Music Box. Hot ... aint' going to stop dancing. It's hot inside, you don't care, you just party. Taking your shirt off. (14:35)

Salkind: You were a Ron Hardy fan?

Corner: Yeah. Before we became friends.

Salkind: Cool.

Corner: Ron is -- they say, 'well who is your favorite DJ?' I say 'my favorite DJ is not here, it's Ron.' But I like all the others; all different music. But 15:00Ron was my man.

Salkind: What did you like about the way he played?

Corner: Probably the energy, and at the same time he could have you at a peak and still bring you back down. When it's time to beat you with 'bang bang bang bang' then he could come at the end of the night, or even the beginning of the night, and just smooth you right up out the party. (15:25) It might be 11:00 in the morning, afternoon, and he'll change gears and send you off with a banger. Or just send you off real ... smooth.

Salkind: It's a delicate art.

Corner: He had a gift.

Salkind: Do you think Ron Hardy is the primary stylistic influence on the people who came after? The Chosen Few DJs for example.

Corner: You can't say that, because actually, I just got off the phone with Wayne Williams. Wayne was there from the beginning. (16:03) Wayne was spinning 16:00in what? '74/'75 ...

Salkind: He's a little bit older than Jesse?

Corner: Yeah. They are close, neck and neck, but I think Wayne's older than Jesse. But Jesse says he -- I forget what year Jesse says he started spinning. But Ron came, Frankie came ... actually, everybody say 'Warehouse, Warehouse, Frankie Knuckles,' house music was born before The Warehouse even existed. Wayne was throwing parties. Wayne and Batman were throwing parties and The Chosen Few was put together with members who are not even members now. They didn't have a name for it; it wasn't house music. It was really preppy coming out -- it was disco. So when we are talking about The Warehouse, The Music Box. There was 17:00other parties that went throughout the city at the same time.

Salkind: Or earlier, from what you are saying.

Corner: I remember going to The Warehouse coming from one party and going to the next party, because they closed later. (17:24) They hours were from twelve to twelve and some of these other parties were from ten to five, leave there at three/four, when the crowd kind of dies out and go to the next party. Keep it going.

Salkind: So did you ever get to go to the first Warehouse? Robert Williams' US Studios?

Corner: Yeah. I remember the first time I went to The Warehouse. Well, we used to go out there and hang out -- outside. Don't have no money to get in, just kinda hanging out watching the scene. Then I decided we were going to go up 18:00there soaking wet from one party. So I was like, 'man, I'm going to go up to the door: I've already been here!' So Braswell was at the door, right? Ron Braswell. He was like, 'you ain't been in here!' (18:22) You know, I'm a teenager. I was like, 'how did he know I hadn't been in there? I'm soaking wet! I just got off the dance floor. What do you mean?' A few years later I discovered that this particular party was basically members. Everyone knew each other. (18:49) They were brothers.

Salkind: You couldn't pull a fast one.

Corner: You could pick a stranger. But you know, I went up there one time. They were like, 'come on in, you be my guest.' I was like, 'I'll be your guest ... okay ...' (19:00) Later on Braswell was a little cooler about it. We would go up 19:00there and either hang outside, if we get a little money, go in. Whole different style of a party. You went to The Playground, there was a difference because those parties were basically kids. You went to this party it was older, but it was predominantly a gay party, but it was an older party at the same time. More of an intense party. There was other things going on. They were a juice bar. They were doing other things, drugs. The music was ... I wouldn't say totally different, but it was more of a different vibe, more (19:56) intense. The sound system was incredible, and you could go to both parties and get two different 20:00vibes. But the one thing that was very noticeable, was that they was a little bit older, and they was doing a lot of things that kids weren't doing. (20:24)

Salkind: Did the high school parties have that same mixed feel of gay folks and straight folks there or was that just at kind of the --

Corner: Well, The Warehouse, The Music Box, was -- especially The Warehouse, was more a close-knit of people. You could be what you wanted to be. In high school around that time, to be out, to say you was gay, was not something that you typically wanted to do unless you was a brave soul, but you can go down to The 21:00Warehouse and be who you wanted to be. (21:05) You can go to the Candy Store, or you can go to Sauer's, you had your people who were able to do what they do, they might have had tendencies that you can see, but they probably didn't just come out and say 'I'm gay.' Although we knew, and had friends that was able to say that, and didn't have a problem with it, and they probably just took the work through it -- that came along with it ... And then you'd go down to one of the parties where they ... came out the closet, as they would say. (21:43)

Salkind: That's an interesting thing about this whole thing. You have young kids in black neighborhoods, in the inner city, who are comfortable with all kinds of 22:00different sexuality. For people who don't understand house culture, they maybe don't get how different that would have been in a lot of other kinds of youth subcultures around that time, in the late '70s/early '80s.

Corner: Yeah, but the music was the bond. It wasn't about what you wanted to do or what you said you were; it didn't matter if you were white, black, orange or blue, what creed color or race, you came together for one common purpose: to listen to this music. And that's what brought everyone together, because The Warehouse was mixed races ... it was predominantly black but it was all the races. You know, if you like house -- one of the things is I had friends too who listened to it and were like, 'aw, I don't like it.' It was sort of like, when you listened to it you either loved it or you don't. (23:03)

Salkind: You either connected or you didn't. So did your entire social group after a point just become house people?

Corner: Some of them was, obviously. A lot of them don't get a chance to go out to party like they used to, but they may come out once in a while. They definitely probably try to make The Picnic, because that's our gathering for everyone. (23:33)

Salkind: And that's gotten -- was it 40,000 people last year?

Corner: Yeah.

Salkind: That's incredible. The year before it was only 20,000.

Corner: No, it was about 30/40. Each year it keeps getting bigger and bigger. It's getting more people involved. There was the core, and you know the core has a problem with the new people, and it should be this and that and the other. What's wrong with it growing? It's all about love so why love shouldn't spread. (24:00)

Salkind: Do you have a sense of what's going to happen if they outgrow Jackson Park?

Corner: If we outgrow Jackson Park it will be time to go somewhere else. Maybe downtown. South ... It's Chicago, we've got many places we can go. That place is love, but at the same time, you've got to grow. House music grew around the world so why shouldn't it grow from where house music was made from.

Salkind: With events like Chosen Few, you often hear people talk about the classics. Do you see that there's a kind of repertoire that some DJs play that's pretty much classic, and then there's other DJs that play more new material or mix it up more? Is there a tension between those two playing styles?

Corner: As far as the people are concerned, you have your DJs, I don't see any tensions with them as far as, 'you play this, I play this, you play that way,' but I think what it is (25:17) is that, I think music is generational. You have a lot of DJs -- my ear, as far as music, I listen to all kinds of music. DJs listen to all kinds of music. DJs, whether they just stay with house music, they listen to a whole lot of house music. What I believe is that music is generational. The music that you hear from when you are thirteen until about twenty-seven, that's the music that moves with you through life. It's like hearing a song, that's why people love the classics. If you play a bunch of music in a crowd of a million people, and you said you play big band, you'll see 26:00some seventy and eighty-year-olds stand up, if you play Motown, I guess you gonna see the sixty-year-olds stand up, if you play some house music, you can go from ... if it's classic house, if it's new house, EDM, it could be from thirteen to twenty-seven and up, what today ... music, I believe, is generational. Not speaking for everyone, but speaking of the majority, they move through life with that music. (26:34)

Salkind: It's important to people because it's what they grew up on?

Corner: Yeah, so you got people that love the classics, then you have people that ... 'man, I wanna hear something new.' For me, I think music is about dancing. Even if you listen, I'm talking about at a party. So when you hear your music, and a DJ is playing it, does it make sense to play a new record, one 27:00after another, and that person is dancing never heard it before? It's kinda hard to dance off of something you never heard. So if you play some things that are familiar, with some things that's brand new, and mash it together, I think it's a beautiful job. But it's hard for me to dance to something I've never heard before until I listen, then I catch the beat and then, 'ok, I dig that.' (27:27) Now I know I wanna do that dip and that slide, or whatever it is I wanna do, that spin, off of that beat because I know where the peaks and the valleys, the middle, whatever in the record. Once I know that then I know what I want to do off that record. It's like practice. When you constantly playing all new music, I cannot practice that fancy move I just did. I can't do it because I don't know what's coming up next. So it is a little, I guess, with the people, and with DJs 28:00too, some like to play all classics, some want to play all new. I think the best DJs are the ones that bring a little from the past, a little in the middle, and a little in the future. Mash them together and figure out how to make it work. To me it doesn't really matter. If you can get people in the building, that's a great DJ. I don't care how great of a DJ you are. You may be the greatest mixer or whatever, but if you can't entertain a crowd, then I don't know how -- what makes you great? What makes you great is what the people tell you. You can't ever say, 'I'm great.' People tell you when you're great. (28:53)

Salkind: So who are some of the greats?

Corner: I ain't going to get into that, I'll get in trouble. Some of the old greats, or the new greats?

Salkind: Who back in the day, that maybe people don't know about too, because we 29:00all know about Frankie and Ron.

Corner: Well, you know about Frankie and Ron -- I guess you would know about Wayne Williams, Jesse Saunders, Alan King. I guess you would know about Lil Louis, Farley "Keith", before he was Jackmaster. Steve Hurley back in the day, Jesse spins at The Playground as well. One of my friends actually did some things, Lee Collins.

Salkind: I've heard of him too ..

Corner: Michael Ezebukwu. Actually, when you look at flyers in my era, a lot of the DJs that were doing a lot -- actually, Chosen Few were doing a lot, Farley 30:00was doing a lot, Frankie of course, Ron of course, that's why I was telling you the difference between an underground party and a party that was a regular weekly that was at an establishment or a club, versus a high school party. (30:28) The high school parties were different because they had a ton of DJs. You didn't have a ton of DJs at a spot; you had one. Maybe two. You go to a high school party it's a whole bill of DJs.

Salkind: Everybody wants a term.

Corner: But I'm sorry if I forgot your name. It might be one of them days. (30:50)

Salkind: That's hard. There's sort of this thing in Chicago where everybody wants to pay respect but there's such a big number of artists.

Corner: I would have to go down to the list. The different bills of DJs that you 31:00saw -- Keith Fobbs, Andre Hatchett, Tony Hatchett, I mean I used to love back in the day, go to a party, 'Oh man they got Tony Hatchett! They got Wayne! Oh man it's going to be off the chain.' (31:22)

Salkind: So you would go to parties based on the DJs?

Corner: Well, the DJs was the draw. It wasn't the promoter back then. Now it's based on the promoter, you know what I mean? In conjunction. But it really is the promoter. The promoter has a lot of power in this city. Back then it was based on the DJ. You didn't look at no flyer like, 'well, who is throwing the party.' I didn't care who was throwing them, I cared about the DJ lineup. But then as you get (31:57) to other parties, and I discovered that I could go to 32:00the party and listen to the same DJ and he could hold my interest the whole party, that was for me. Plus I still had to go to the other parties because there were some of the finest women in the world that kept you there too, and I guess for the women too there were fine men there, or whatever it is that you liked. It brought a lot of people from all parts of the city that came together on common ground to listen to the music and that was the beauty of it. (32:32) But when I went to the intense party it might have been dark or whatever, but the music was just -- and it was for a longer period of time, plus I didn't have to go to the peaks and valleys. Because one of those things I noticed was that, when you have DJs that spin, when you have a big bill, everybody's trying to outdo each other. Nobody's actually passing the baton to the next DJ and bringing him ... I love a party that has a wave. You go to a peek. You may come 33:00down some. You go back up, you go down, you come up; it's a wave. But if you just constantly are trying to out-do each other with the next top 40 hits back to back from each other, I don't want that. (33:20)

Salkind: When did you start getting into working with Chosen Few? Were you working with Terry Hunter before he was in the Chosen Few?

Corner: I was working with the Chosen Few before I was working with Terry. Well, I can't say that because Terry is Chosen Few, so we were just working, period. (33:40) I don't know what year it was. The Picnic had been just steadily moving, doing what it was doing. Then, I guess, maybe a couple after parties from the picnic. So we kind of partnered up on some of them. Then we noticed that The Picnic started getting going and they decided that 'we need maybe some promotion 34:00about The Picnic.' Then that started it. What's that record playing right there? 'Bang!' So then we been doing parties throughout the year besides The Picnic. My production name is The Way We Were. (34:33) So that's another entity. And then, Terry's like -- actually it was a year before we decided to do the Bang! party, that he wanted to do a record at home ... Okay, we talked about it. If you know Terry, he'll tell you something, and stay tuned because he's going to come back! 35:00It might not be a day or even a week later, but he's going to come back. So he came back and said 'Hey, let's do this!' And we came up with that concept. (35:17) I mean, it's a great party, so, and one of things that I see, we can promote, I've done weeklies, dailies, monthly, or whatever. Different holidays you always pick as a promoter; you strategize what would be a good day. But we was like, 'hey, let's get together,' because all the great parties had parties had a brand to it. So, we didn't want to just do a party, we wanted to brand the party. (35:50) So basically, Bang! is its own style, its own format. We can take Bang! anywhere and everywhere. Terry has produced music that was just solely 36:00about the Bang! sound. We can do parties at the (Winter) Music Conference under Bang! So we could take Bang! anywhere. But when you say Bang!, it's a style, it's a format. It's just like when you go to The Warehouse or The Music Box. The Music Box moves. The Warehouse is the Music Box. The DJ changed, but it's still the same promoter. The same owner that took that style of party and moved it from one building to another. (36:50)

Salkind: The first Warehouse must have been in three or four different places before --

Corner: Well, actually when you talk about ... when Robert tells you when he first started doing parties before he landed on Jefferson. He used to do parties, where was it, 13th and Michigan, actually across the street from The 37:00Playground. But when he went to the Warehouse, actually Robert was DJing himself. (37:13) I'm going to let him tell you how good he was. But then he went back to New York and grabbed Frankie, and brought him back, and that was --

Salkind: And then that worked out for a while.

Corner: Yeah. And then after him and Frankie decided to part ways, I think it was before they first moved they was down the street at a loft on Michigan, from The Playground, and then they moved on over on Indiana. And from there they went to what people call The Underground, and it was The Music Box, but the place was originally called the R2 Underground before Robert even got there. That's why the name, that Underground, always stuck with them. (38.04)

Salkind: That's interesting. Do you think that that's why, partly why, people call it underground music? Or just a coincidence?

Corner: One of the stories that people ask, what did house music come from, or the name. Everybody wants to take claim to it. We say, I say, that it's the same thing as 'underground' depending on who you talk to and where you were at. Because, for me, I could say house music from The Warehouse, but I would have been around people that called it house music that ain't never heard of The Warehouse; that didn't know it existed. That term 'house music' really came from Chicago, but at the same time, the music was a style of music. The tempo that we delivered, that's what house was to us, and it spread. But when people say, 'I want to pinpoint exactly where it came from' (39:03) All I can say is where it 39:00came from for me, because for another person it probably came from somewhere else. But if you weren't there with me, or knew anyone who actually went to the Warehouse, how would you get that house music term? (39:16) Underground, so how it became underground music? I believe it was underground, that the term underground basically speaks for itself. Radio music is radio, music that's not on the radio is underground. (39:36)

Salkind: You've got to find it; you've got to dig it up.

Corner: You gotta dig it up ... in fact right over here (points outside) this record store right there.

Salkind: Hyde Park Records?

Corner: I mean they've got some heat in there.

Salkind: I've gotta go check that out. Corner: You've got to go over there. They used to be ... Loni, weren't they in the square -- That was Dr. Wax over there. (40:20)

Salkind: Now that Dr. Wax collection, all the records that are from there is down at the Theaster Gates project. You know that spot?

Corner: Yeah.

Salkind: Down in the 60s. There's a big record library there.

Corner: Then you have your DJs, when you talking about the DJs -- classics and this and that. You've got your DJs that's the purists, who only play albums and 45s and wax. And it's like, does it matter that you talk about Ron he was playing his reel-to-reel? So why would you talk about this DJ because he's playing on CDs? Or he's playing on his laptop? I know a record feels, and analog 41:00is warmer, you could say. But in a party, are you serious? Do you think you are going to hear this? You playing an analog record because it's warm, in a digital system. I don't get it. That's just a pet peeve, but I think that what works for a DJ today, for all of the music that you have to play, because if you playing house music you can go all the way from disco all the way to now. Imagine the crates that you would have to carry. (41:52)

Salkind: Much easier to have a laptop.

Corner: Yeah! They say, 'well, you didn't put no work in it.' Technology changes all the time. What did you do before? Probably had a record. I don't know.

Salkind: So do you remember Ron Hardy playing the reel-to-reel?

Corner: Yeah.

Salkind: Was it just beat tracks? What was he putting on there?

Corner: Actually, Ron's reels was his own personal -- what he did was, a lot of it was his edits. Beat tracks, it could be whatever. He could play a record ... however, whatever you want. That was his edits. It wasn't like he was always--he would play the records from someone or whatever, but that was his tunes in order to keep the music to you. The same thing with the record. So it just was something, the beat track that he made might (42:47) take -- Isaac Hayes, 'I Can't Turn Around.' Ron took that and speeded the record up ... I can't say that I've seen it with my own eyes, because I don't remember, but I'mquite sure it 43:00was probably on the reel, because he edited and that was his. But he didn't just take the record and just speed it up and keep it going. Yeah, you can do that, but I know Ron used his reel-to-reel just as well as his records.

Salkind: Did Frankie do reel-to-reel as well?

Corner: You got me looking in my mind. I'm not quite sure. Yeah -- I gotta look at my memory. A lot of the DJs used the reels back then. That was basically doing edits ahead of, because you was walking around with these records, or a guy would hand him a cassette tape: 'here, play that.' (43:54) You know, the tape decks, cassette decks ... it wasn't them cheep ones that would eat up your tapes. When they were playing they had the professional equipment that they were 44:00playing on.

Salkind: Is that also how there -- you know there are all these recorded live sets from like C.O.D.'s and allegedly from The Music Box. Do you think those are from the tapes? How do those exist?

Corner: Actually, Ron used to make tapes ... actually my tapes that I had, my nephew taped over it right when he got to the age that he was listening to the radio and music and taped over it with some hip hop! Back in the day hip hop. (44:43) Some people would take a recorder and put it in the speaker. That's why you would hear all that noise. You've got some of the edits floating around the internet. You can hear that wasn't something that Ron taped in the DJ booth. Ron 45:00wasn't actually selling and ... but his friends, he would give them tapes. (45:11) 'Here you go,' hit the recorder flip it over, another one, 'here you go, next yours' (mimes passing out tapes).

Salkind: Would he just play something without previewing it? Would he just throw it on?

Corner: Oh no. Well, that wasn't taking music to play, this was actually giving you a recording of the night that he would record live all the time and hand you something. But if somebody gave him something, I couldn't speak but he would have had listened to it because you don't just play something you've never heard before. (45:40)

Salkind: Seems like someone that skilled would have to spend some time thinking about it.

Corner: Unless somebody would tell you, 'hey this the cut, put it on.' Oh no, I don't trust that! Salkind: Do you remember the legendary stories about Jamie Principle or someone giving those first tapes of like "Waiting For My Angel." 46:00Whose tracks got played in The Box?

Corner: I mean, everybody eventually, if Ron thought it was good. I mean, (46:19) Ron was the pied piper; Frankie was the pied piper. It wasn't for us to figure out who, what, when and why. That DJ was the music director. That DJ gave you what he wanted you to have. That was the beauty of it. I could come listen to you, I could go next week, or Friday and go over here. I could go Friday night and go to the Power Plant, Saturday to The Music Box, you could hear some of the same music, and hear some totally different music -- and I could go to The Playground and hear something totally different again! (47:01)

Salkind: How would you characterize the differences between those three venues, 47:00for example, in the mid-'80s. So if you had The Playground, The Power Plant, and The Music Box, was it a matter of -- you talked about Ron Hardy in terms of energy, people often talk about Frankie Knuckles in terms of being smooth, or be a little bit more of a sophisticated sound. Does that seem fair, or is it not really about those kinds of terms?

Corner: This might can't go on the tape! Ron played both ways. Ron could smooth you out ... he had a lot of energy, so his energy was the drive -- drive, drive. And then he could slow you down. Mellow you out. Play what I would say, he'd play some greats for you, whatever. (48:00) Frankie played a lot of more lyrics. 48:00Lyrics have a tendency to be what they might say, 'graceful,' I guess. Ron would play lyrics too. But he played things that had more driving beat. Plus, it depends on when you walked in The Music Box. You walked in at a certain time, you might get banged over the head for the next three hours, but then the music changed. Same thing with Frankie. (48:31) Frankie would drive, hit you hard, and smooth you out. But I think Ron liked to bang longer. Frankie liked to play smoother longer. I think that might be the difference between them ...

Salkind: So its just gradations; its not like on person's over here, and one person's over there?

Corner: They both played some of the same music, and they both had energy, but 49:00it's just that -- They all played music gracefully, but who stayed in a more smoother vibe versus a more driving vibe? That would be Ron, drove hard. Frankie didn't drive hard as much.

Salkind: What about the audiences? Do you feel like when you were at those spaces there would be very different audiences? Or were they kind of similar?

Corner: Yes, they were different. I think The Music Box was people, well the difference between the Music Box and The Warehouse was more of an attitude. People at The Music Box had a different attitude than the Power Plant (50:05).

Salkind: Was it neighborhood too?

Corner: But they all went to each others party, but it'd be more of them, because they saw ... I would say the people were more graceful or whatever, and The Music Box is more the streets. (50:24) So that would kind of be what it is.

Salkind: I think Chip E. or someone said at one point, that I read, that The Music Box was more banjee; the more ruffneck kind of vibe.

Corner: Well, I don't know that you would say the ruffneck, but most of them came from areas ... you couldn't say what areas they came from. It was just that their mentality was different. I would say, if you would say you use the words and the terms of today, they was more street. Versus, Power Plant was a little 51:00bit more boogie. Those would be the difference. Street and boogie. (51:12)

Salkind: But the Power Plant was also on the Near West Side so it was close to Cabrini Green --

Corner: Actually, the parties we are talking about, as far as the high school parties and none of them, it didn't matter where they was at.

Salkind: People would get there --

Corner: Only a certain group of people will go. It's the same thing in Chicago. If you step, that's something that you do. Only steppers go to steppers parties. Only house heads go to house parties. (51:37) Disco, preppy, new wave, whatever. Only those type of people went. Think about Sauer's. Three blocks: State Street, Wabash, Indiana, you walking into Sauer's. After that, you know what I mean? You're three/four blocks away from the projects. Cabrini Green that's the 52:00Icky's, The One's, and The Hilliards, which is very close to Sauer's, The Playground, 13th, still very close. (52:11) Halsted, round the corner, is the projects. People came from there, but they didn't come from what you would say, if you have a project, is everybody in the project on ... is it a bad place, or is it a bad situation, or is it just economically, people are not making the money that other people are making? So those terms, of 'it being a bad neighborhood,' it could be in a bad neighborhood, but as long as the place around it is protected, they're not actually coming to that party. If they do come to that party, they'll get changed around. (52:55) Hey, they having fun -- unless you on bullshit, than that wouldn't be a problem.

Salkind: So a neighborhood didn't determine the feel of a party because it was diverse enough in different places?

Corner: No, and it wasn't as bad as it is now. Back then, there may be some things that happened that were bad, a fight or this, or a robbery ... but nobody's shooting. You go into the neighborhood now, somebody's shooting and killing. There's a difference. You can survive somebody robbing you. You can't survive somebody shooting you or killing you. It really wasn't about whether it had to be in a nice neighborhood because most of the parties that was thrown in some of the lofts, they was all warehouses in areas that there wasn't nobody around. (53:50) Even though the Warehouse, while it was in the area, nobody even knew nothing about it, nobody even knew The Box was on Michigan and Lower Wacker, so you were in the middle of downtown, but you still was in no man's 54:00land because you was underground! And then when you would go to the Power Plant. You look at The Power Plant and say 'what's on Halsted?' But if you go a couple of blocks down, and over, you run into the projects, but it wasn't nothing right there; it's like a no man's land. So we actually looked for warehouses to throw parties because we needed a lot of space. We wasn't trying to get a liquor license, this was a juice bar license. (54:31)

Salkind: Was it easy to get a juice bar license?

Corner: Yeah, they was easy. But anti-rave laws done crushed that one up. So you might as well get your liquor license because trying to get a juice bar license is so hard.

Salkind: So you think it was the anti-rave legislation changed --

Corner: Yeah, that's what changed a lot of the laws. I mean, because they was going after, I mean, adults can drink. So you can get a liquor license. Kids 55:00can't drink so what did you do? A juice bar license, in order to operate. So, kids was taking drugs; they didn't worry about drinking. So they had to do something to try to figure out: 'how do you bust this up or stop them from actually coming together? Like, we're promoting them to get together and do this.' So they had to come up with some kind of reason to stop this. (55:32)

Salkind: Do teenagers in the city still dance together like they used to?

Corner: Yeah, that's weird isn't it?

Salkind: Right.

Corner: They don't dance no more, like the record, 'they don't dance no more.' I don't think so. I mean, one of the things that I liked about house music, the parties, was you can get close to the women.

Salkind: You can experiment a little bit, with proximity.

Corner: The dance was real -- that's one of the things that I loved about house 56:00music. You dance so close with each other. It was all central. But he just asked me, what's wrong, do the kids dance anymore. Not with each other! They dance, I mean they do all that stuff, but not as a massive --

Loni House: And not connecting with each other.

Zinzi Powell: With who they dancing with. Exactly.

Corner: The things that you using right now, like the internet and you got your iPad, those are the things that I think are taking the human race away from each other. Because, I don't like to text. I need to talk to you, because I can hear your voice. I can hear how you feel. Even if you way something, I can hear, 'do 57:00I need to trust this?' You've got to be a con man in order to get around it. But with a text? Social media? What can I learn about you? So, we separated from each other, and we don't socialize with each other in the real time. It's all about texting. I need to sit down with you. Break bread with you. They're not breaking bread with each other, so they don't -- I mean, we alienating ourselves. You know, I guess that's what's maybe, might be the reason why. But they need to do things that we did. I don't know, it's sort of like when we were growing up they used to make us dance together. (57:53) We used to have these parties, or balls, or things in school that got us together in order for us to 58:00do these parties! I guess it needs to go back to some of that --

Salkind: Do you remember some of that stuff that when you were a kid you used to do? Was it like sock hops? Did you go to the roller discos?

Corner: Oh, I skated. These are the things we do. In my neighborhood, we step, we skate. We had our group of guys who were best friends of mine forever. We did the house. I've always loved girls, so skate dance, those were just things that we did, like the back of our hands. We went to parties so much it was like it was routine.

Salkind: Did you have a sense of when it started becoming big outside of Chicago? What did that feel like when you started to get aware of that?

Corner: Not for me, I wasn't really concentrating on that, so DJs that wanted to travel and do things like that, you would hear about other countries; the records -- I mean, when I got old enough to move around and travel, you know, it was amazing hearing something from Chicago at this party. It was like, 'wow!' Or going to a country that speaks a language that you don't understand and the next thing you know you hear one of the records that you know. That was really fresh. As far as the outside influence of house music bouncing around the world, it really didn't matter to us. It matters to a DJ or a producer, someone who is getting paid, but I wasn't getting paid so I didn't care. I was concentrating on home. Home was where I was getting paid. I wasn't promoting across the pond. But 60:00as far as the DJs, you knew about your DJs going over there getting they money. Artists going over there to perform. Yeah, they love this, but did that really give me a sense of pride? Probably not then, but now? Yeah, I'm proud to say house music was born in Chicago. (1:00:29)

Salkind: Do you think it gets recognized enough as being of Chicago, not just from Chicago, but of, like shaped by this city?

Corner: They don't even want to recognize that it's from Chicago, you know, they talk about London, they talk about New York. It's just like when you say rap. Was rap created in New York? It might have been several places that they was making rap, but the concentration of it, and how many artists who was actually 61:00concentrating on making this style of music, came up out of New York. The same thing with Chicago. The concentration of the beats and the artists in this tempo came out of Chicago. I mean, make it -- they can do what they want to do, but the proof is there. (1:02:23)

Salkind: Do you think now the city is still the epicenter for new house music? When you hear new stuff now?

Corner: It's a new resurgence of music coming through here. People, I don't know if they're coming right back around. They say every twenty years things come back. Or is it just that us in the industry are pushing it, and people are accepting it. I know it's a real surging of it because it's going places that it 62:00never was, or it's going places it was at over twenty years. It's going back in there, and I think what it is, is like I say, generational. The generation of people that was in the bar the last five years ago, last ten years ago, they done got older so they out of the bar. Our generation is out of the clubs and back in the bars. So that's why the music is coming back out. It's always been there but now you hear it a lot of different places. Versus in the clubs, hip hop, top 40 takes over the clubs. So it forces the other generation out. Which we still have a younger generation that's out here listening to house, but it's different. It's under the disguise of another name. (1:02:54) Techno, EDM, but it's still in the same tempo. It comes out, it's just like disco, house is the 63:00birth child out of disco, so those are birth childs out of house. They all connected to each other.

Salkind: I'm always curious about how people in Chicago feel about the EDM thing.

Corner: I think it's a little bit too fast.

Salkind: Tempo-wise too fast?

Corner: Yeah, I mean, you listen to a lot of this music, what thirty/forty-year-old can do that? It depends on what the dancing is. I guess you show --

Salkind: Is this footage from your party?

Corner: Yeah.

Salkind: Oh, nice!

Corner: What are you looking at?

Lonnie House: Just pulling something off of YouTube.

Corner: Go to one of the newer ones where you can get the video. I can show you where it's at.

Salkind: So how do you like the venue? You guys are at The Shrine, right? Which 64:00is sort of in the South Loop.

Corner: It's in the South Loop. Actually, it's in the Mecca. I always call it the Mecca because The Penthouse was on 12th, The Playground, First Impressions, The Loft, The Music Box when it was on 18th, Sauer's. All of these, even The Music Box, they're not too far from each other. So it's in the Mecca --

Salkind: I like that. The Mecca.

Corner: Yeah, I mean it's like ground zero for it, because everything, there's a lot of party because of the lofts -- that parties using that area a lot because you couldn't really do them in residential areas because of the sound systems that we need to drive the party, so they were in areas that had warehouses and lofts and all sorts of different things that you could possibly get into that 65:00does business during the daytime but not at night. So that's one of the reason we was in that area.

Salkind: Were you guys aware at the time that that had been Record Row, or you know, any of the old soul industry that had closed up --

Corner: Oh, all in the area? I knew because I'm in between eleventh and tenth, so the stories that my brothers and sisters and father and mother, you know, they was in the area. They know the history. It gets passed on, it gets passed down. So as far as me actually seeing it, I've seen the buildings and I know the stories of Al Capone, you know, his hotel, the buildings, the underground (1:05:49), what used to, instead of going on the street they would use the underground, you know, passages to go from building to building. I know those 66:00stories and I've actually seen those buildings and I've actually seen the old, might not be the same buildings, somebody tore them down and built some others, but I know the landmarks.

Salkind: It's interesting -- it is a very small area with a lot of concentration.

Corner: What you would say South Loop is a lot of history, a lot of entertainment going on.

Salkind: That's a very residential area now, right?

Corner: Yeah.

Salkind: Did you all notice that transition very much? Or had you kind of moved on from parties by the time that happened?

Corner: As far as the parties, see, I lived in the neighborhood, so I've seen first hand -- seen the neighborhood change and I've seen it as it was going in a different direction, gentrifying the neighborhood, as they would call it -- (1:08:02)